Hot Takes! Intermittent Fasting, 30-Min Workouts, and More – Ask a Cycling Coach 386

Today on the ask a Cycling Coach Podcast,
we're gonna cover some hot takes on lots of topics, including intermittent fasting,
inflammation off seasons and more. So let's get into it. Hi guys. First hot, take . First hot take. Let's do it. Freshness is better than fitness. Chad, what do you think? Uh, this kind of implies that you can
have one without the other, and so let's be clear, you can't because freshness
doesn't matter if you're not unmasking. Uh, wealth of fitness and, uh,
fitness doesn't matter if it doesn't. If you don't have fitness, doesn't
matter how fresh you are and you're not gonna be able to do anything. So, Uh, trying to rank one of these
over the other kind of breaks my brain.

It's really hard for me to say that
one is more important than the other. It's obviously fitness. I am the freshest I've
ever been to my wife. Yeah, I was just gonna say I year you're crazy fresh . Yeah. Where I the worst, I've, the worst
I've been, uh, in like a hole. I was still probably 150 wat FTP watts
higher, of course chronic fatigue syndrome or something like that. But, but being, this is a big good point. Being slightly tired,
uh, slightly less fresh. But being fitter going into
a race is perfectly fine. Cause I think a lot of people
get scared that, Hey, I'm not fresh enough coming to this.

I'm not gonna be able to perform
because they've been putting so much work in for a long time. Um, of course the best is
if you can balance both. And sometimes we've seen that with
athletes who get injured or have something work come up and you actually can't
train for two weeks and you come out with the , you're the fastest you've ever
been . Um, but I mean fitness, fitness is the cake and freshness is the icing.

Uh, Freshness is like the
sharpness of the blade. I guess that's not a good
way to put it, but Yeah. I'm gonna say cake and icing. Yeah. I think people miss attribute, um, like training
fatigue or over training, um, a lot. And I don't think I've known more
than like four or five athletes that have actually overtrained
and need more freshness.

I don't know. What do you think, John? Yeah. First of all, it's nice to, uh,
I'm, I'm not the host today. It's pretty great. Yeah. Are you, are you okay? Is it, How do you feel? I'll be fine. I'm gonna talk less, I think. Uh, so I think that the way too
many athletes concern themselves or they concern themselves
too much with freshness. I see it all the time where
they're like, I just, And Chad, you're nodding your head too. You've seen it way more than I have. But like I, I think that, and I've,
I'd love to see some sort of study done where it takes an athlete's like
perception of what they're expect.

And then looks at like their training
stress coming in and looks at like six week versus current, that sort of thing. And then sees what the actual
outcome is in the race. Because there are times when I'm like,
Oh, I'm so fatigued, so I've already put myself in a hole for the race. Who cares how fresh I actually am? Like freshness is tricky and I think
that a lot of athletes just make mistakes because they overfocus
on it when really fitness is key. And two, we're taking, talking about
this in the context of a race. Mm-hmm. day to day training. Yeah, exactly. Day to day training, of course, you
have to be considered about not going, you know, training eight days in a row,
then taking two weeks off because you've put yourself in such a whole, this
is, you know, peaking for that a race.

Is it better to have some fitness or to be super. Well, and also emphasizing
freshness anytime outside of what you just said, Nate. Peak performances and
races is kind of that. I think that's where everyone
gets a little bit off track. I need to be fresh For what? Just about everything. So if you're always concerning
yourself with being fresh for the next workout, never really running yourself
down, never putting yourself in that necessary hole, then you, you, your,
your fitness simply is gonna stagnate. You have to at points not be fresh. It's required. .
Yeah. Google's super compensation and
Maxine, can you put this image up? This shows you where you have to
get fatigued and then that damage to your body, The rest after
that is what makes you more fit. And there's a limit to how fatigued
you can get where it's, um, productive.

Right, Chad? Yeah. Chad. And then, um, But you have to,
you, you have to get in that hole. And sometimes if you can get,
if you've plateaued for a long time, sometimes that hole isn't
being dug deep enough every time. But often two people will jump
in too high and go too deep too. It's, it's very hard to balance this. Yeah, that's a perfect way to put it too. And if you look at what that is, if
you just look at a horizontal line and you look at the, the line that Nate's
describing, when you dip below that line, that's the hole we're talking about.

And how deep you dig that hole, how
wide that hole is, the depth and the width, those are the things that matter. Those are the things that are gonna
determine whether or not you can bounce back from the training stress
you just inflicted, whether it's gonna derail further training, whether it's
gonna yield freshness, et cetera. Look at the best performers in life, not
just on bikes, but inclusive of bikes. They perform in less than
ideal circumstances, and they find a way to do it. I think that's like, uh,
that's a, that's a big thing. Uh, ivy like cyclic cross
seasons, super long. Right. Like I'm sure that you see athletes that,
and you yourself, if on days where you're not your best, you still find a way to, to
at least let your fitness show, you know, the only NRC credit I ever won was on a
borrowed bike from a completely different team because mine was lost in transit.

Wow. Like, you just gotta . Yeah. I want, continue on what Chad said about that
hole, the depth and the width. Now how fast you're gonna come out of
that hole is gonna be a combination of nutrition, sleep, and stress. I, I, I have, uh, carbs
and protein and also sleep. I mean, how many of us,
you probably all felt it. You get nine hours sleep versus
seven hour sleep three days in a row. The nine, three days in a row. I almost feel like my, like my legs
get bigger when I get out of bed. Um, the whole day's better. I can concentrate few days of sevens
and it's, it's, it's, it's rough.

It's amazing. Mm-hmm. the difference. I think that's what I'm kind of, what I
was trying to allude to when I mentioned people misattributing, uh, their training
load and thinking that they need to be fresh and they're doing too much and
trying to think about getting ready for their event or a key workout or something. And they're not, It's not training load,
it's not training fatigue, it's all that other stuff that you just mentioned. Stress and nutrition and sleep. I have a hot take. We're gonna do this live. Uh, when would you, when would
you sacrifice sleep for training? Cause I think we all have .
I was just about to say, I would never
do that and then I was like, You have Uh, yeah.

With some, someone from the
perspective of not having kids. The only time I wouldn't be concerned
with the quality of my sleep would be the night before an event. Yeah. I think like the very night, the, the
night before that is far more key. .
Yeah. I'm not saying I would
sacrifice sleep in that case. That's the only time I
wouldn't be concerned with it. I can't think of instances where I,
again, without having children, would intentionally sacrifice sleep . Yeah. There's no, I have no point in throwing water
into the sponge if it can't absorb. Right. Like, yeah, and that's, and you need
sleep to be able to, and this is really hard because I'm trying to think of a
lot of people listening to this right now and somebody's working night shift
and they've got kids and they've got a crazy, really, really busy high
demand life and they're like, Well, cool, then I shouldn't even train.

And I don't want to communicate that cuz
that like, in, in certain circumstances they're going to be athletes that are
going to be training through sleep deprivation in one way or another. But yeah, I feel like you have to be
realistic and make adjustments to that. You know, Well you, you do what you can and of
course there's life stuff on it and we're all gonna be constrained
about some parts of our life. But I'm talking about, I have sacrificed
sleep for that early morning group ride. where it is something where I'm like,
I wouldn't actually probably do this by myself cuz it's gonna be a six hour ride. I've done it with you guys, a six
hour gravel ride or something, but I have to get up at six 30, which
I don't normally do on the weekend. And I would do that sporadically if
I too noon the next Sunday, I could sleep in a little bit more, but I
wouldn't be doing that every day.

Mm-hmm. . Yeah, that's a balance about, that's a
balance between the added sleep and what you're gonna get out of the the training. So that makes perfect sense to me. And I've done it a million times. Just don't make it chronic, Right. Where every single day is that. Or if you know that every single night
you only get six and a half, seven hours, know that's gonna reduce your total.

Yeah, because you're not gonna, you're
not gonna come outta that hole as fast. That's all gotta, You just can't, you
can't, you can't put as much in there. Like, it's like the jar and filling it. That same old thing that you
see filling it with stand sand and stones and all that stuff. It's finite. Like you can't just pack it in then hope
that somehow it's all gonna work out. You're just gonna train less. But you know what, you might actually,
Oh, I'm, I'm quite confident in saying that a person, if they're not able to
sleep as much, if you train less, you're gonna be faster than if you were trying
to train more and still had your sleep.

Limited as is that, cause that's
just gonna get you tired, not allow you to be consistent. Probably increase things like, you know,
uh, tendency for illness, all that stuff. So, yeah. But training less, you
can get fast with less. Yeah. Good ad lib. Hot take Nate. Thanks, . All right. TT bikes shouldn't be allowed in
stage races for amateur categories. They are of this should. Oh, they shouldn't be allowed. They shouldn't be allowed. Oh, they shouldn't. Yeah. And this is only on TT stages, right? Not like a, Not like a Cause I agree with that. I'm sorry for that. Really loud lawnmower behind
if anybody hears this. I forgot on when we're recording
this, we've got loud stuff. So, sorry. Do you hear that? Uh, I agree with this on take. I don't think I, I love when stage
races have Merck's time trials where you have to use the same mass
start legal bike for all the stages. I feel like there are way more competitors
from like other regions than in the States cuz it's easier to carpool and travel
when you only have one bike per person.

And the beginner categories are huge too. Like people are, there's less of a
barrier of entry when you don't have to have a TT bike to be competi. What do you guys think? I think this is a wonderful equalizer,
especially across the lower categories. And it, it kind of, it makes it fun cuz
it's a, it's a true race of attrition and power and suffering and all the
things it should be, and doesn't lean so hard on the technological side
and emphasize the marginal gains.

Rather, it says you're
either strong or you're not. So I, I, I love this idea. I never really considered
it, but I'm always fascinated when the TT is a MER style tt. That's always just more interesting to me
because again, it just levels the field. Mm-hmm. , P one, two, TT bikes, 3, 4, 5, Mercks. If it's a two by itself still
Mercks, only if it's looped, looped in with the P one two.

That should be the role more
inclusive, uh, way easier for people to actually show up to these stage
races who might say, I don't want to do it because I'm not gonna be. Well on top of it, it, it kind of takes
my head outta the game a little bit. When I look at the, the rivals
who, with which I'm competing and they don't have the fancy gear. I mean, if one of 'em is on a
regular time trial bike, it's a little bit heartbreaking to
think they don't stand a chance.

They could actually be a fitter, faster
rider than me and I'm probably still gonna smoke 'em simply because I do have
that massive technological look at Chad. Chad just looks at his competition and he ps
them for the damage he's about to induce. I just think Oscar, to do that, he would
not look in people's eyes because he knew he didn't want to have pity for them. So Chad, don't look at
anyone's eyes who has a, a regular fight. That is, that is brutal. Didn't wanna have pity for him. That's intense. Chad, I am thinking of Chad driving
down to like Valley of the Valley of Fire stage race down in like Las
Vegas and stuff back in the day. I bet he brought his TT bike
in, but he smoked him on it. So we did. All three of us did and we
smoked everybody and a lot of people who weren't on TT bikes. It's, yeah, it's a sad truth. It's, I nothing to add that
hasn't been added other than.

Yeah, it's a pain to travel with a
lot of bikes in a lot of cases, races like this, have people traveling. I would love to see this rule of
put in place instead of worrying about silly things like sock
height, like come on, you know? Yeah. So it's cool from a, a overall
race perspective too, when the margins are so much , are you
thinking about sockeye at Nate ?
Yeah, because the next
question, sock height and now John, that he loves triathlon. He's very concerned about having
a cool, This is a good segue. Yeah, I was just gonna say that the margins
in stage races, when they're Merc style tts are, I feel like they're a little
bit closer and it makes the racing more exciting later when people are racing for,
you know, when four or five racers are racing for the same time bonus and all in
contingent versus, you know, I feel like the time gaps are so much bigger with TT.

Because they're rolling. Well, we can put it in terms of of,
of Dan Bigham versus Philip Oana. I mean that the, the, Oh my gosh. The difference in power relative to
the difference in CDA is ridiculous. We can get to that. I know we have a question
later, so I'll save it. Yeah. . Is John a better person
now that he loves triathlon How person? He's more inclusive. It's fraud. Has it humbled you? Like you can wear different sock heights or no sock, no socks? No. I, I think I, I should
be clear that No, no. I, I, I still am quite strict on Midcalf.

Um, I was just commenting on the
fact that like the UCI has all these rules about like your socks can't be
above, I think it's above mid-calf. It's halfway between
the ankle and the knee. Is that right? I thought about getting a
tattoo, like just a little line tattoo right where it was. Wouldn't that be cool though? Like just a teeny one? You couldn't, That's commit. Yeah, I think it's a really cool idea. I might still do, It's pretty good idea. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a tattoo guy, but I would, I
would actually consider that one. You just do it functional. That's two millimeter one. Yeah. No, you wouldn't even even know. Then you'd be like,
Tattoo, it's right here. Give when somebody's tt and
the top of the tees is the line. Imagine somebody coming up
to you and asking you like, what does that tattoo mean? Like expecting like some deep thing and
then you're like, you see rule number xxx , like imagine if they change it.

So you would like have to say
like, the year 20, just put an X on it. Just put an X to it. Change it. 2023. 2024. .
And I, I gotta ask on a, on a personal
level, you say John loves triathlon. Just how deep is your affinity all of a
sudden for, for something that you used to I don't know. Views were different. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks Chad. Thanks for censoring for me. That was great. Um, I honestly, I, I, I enjoy triathlon. I like it. It's a really fun challenge to take on. Um, I've always admired
triathletes a lot too. Just I, it's a, it's a lot to do,
but it's not to the point where like, eh, I'll do cycling events, you know,
when I can triathlon's my thing. It's definitely not that case. I just like doing a lot of stuff. I've really focused on just bikes for a
really long time, and I've done that and I haven't won national championships. Uh, I think stars would've to align for me
to win a national championship, you know? Um, and I've chased that pretty
hard for quite a few years, and a lot of sacrifice comes with it.

If I can still, I, I, I still feel like I
can race and have fun and be competitive. Maybe not win a national championship
and maybe that can't happen anyway, but still do multi-sport stuff. I think the biggest thing that I love
about it is the fact that I feel way healthier as a person running and
swimming and doing all those other things. I'm just like, I'm not like a,
a weird, like circular scape shaped scalpel that a surgeon only
uses one time in their career. That's kind of what I felt like,
like if I had to do anything. Other than that I wasn't useful. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know if it makes
me a better person though. I have no clue. Uh, I think, I think
it's a sign of maturity. You're just branching out, trying
to be good at a lot of things instead of really good at one thing. Yeah. Cause as good as I tried,
I still wasn't good enough. So, , I'm just happy to see you be human
and like be bad at something. So .

Thanks, Zoe. Yeah, you bet. You got it. Compliment . Glad I could help. Oh, man. Okay. Hot take cycle. Cross racing is more technical than Exco. I super agree with this. Heck no. No way. Oh, I, I completely agree with this. A hundred percent. No. Tell me about your cyclo cross experience. ,
cyclo cross racing is all while technical. Xco is so much more technical, uh,
than Cyclo Cross and the, the, the. Well, not the reveal assaults, but
the, what's it called when you get hurt, the consequences of your actions. Consequences. , your consequences are so much
high in Xeo, which adds an extra layer of, of technicality. Of course. It it. So think of like a World Cup Xeo race. Those things are technical in my mind. Um, more than an xeo. I could do an xcl course. How about this? I could survive an xeo course at a
World Cup CYC cross course, for sure. A hundred percent. I could not do it on ex, or sorry,
I could, I can't talk today. Um, I could survive in Cyclo Cross at
World Cup, but I could not survive an xcl.

I would, I would crash. I would hurt myself. I would break bones. I'd have to walk things. I mean, psych clause, I'd walk things
too, but because it's just muddy. Hmm. Yeah, for sure. Well, I think that's kind of the distinction
or the reason why I disagree. I think that at the highest level for,
for someone that is like a beginner in cycle cross and you're just looking
at these features and kind of writing them at a safe, comfortable speed
or just running them when you're not comfortable writing it, that's a totally
different experience than at the top level where you're like riding at super
high speeds in these ruts, um, you know, being super underbid on some pretty
technically demanding features at speed.

And I feel like the moments of testing
your equipment and finding the limits for each of these corners are so much
more frequent than in an xeo where the, I feel like there are big moments that
are big, high consequence and they're more few and far between than in Cy
Cross, where you just have like moment after moment after moment of really
technically demanding, uh, sections. That's right. I can, I can still ride mud. I was in South Africa and I saw the
cork screw for that like course thing. Have you guys seen the cork screw? It does not do justice on tv. You sit up there, it's just like
a mind shaft going straight down. You have to ride the walls back and
forth with like this bug coming in. It is terrifying. I could, I couldn't slide down on
my butt, aren't it like, seriously? Mm-hmm. , Uh, just not the same of writing.

I've, I've rid, muddy, uh, ruts a lot. It's actually super fun and
you just kind of like surf. Um, I'm not the fastest at it, of course,
but I just technically can't even ride xeo courses where I could ride all the c cycle cross courses. Yeah, I, I, I disagree
and I, for two reasons. Number one, the bike I think
is one of the biggest things. Your bike is such a
limiter in cyclo Cross. Navigating a turn on a
mountain bike is darn easy. Navigating a turn on a cyclo cross
bike is a lot harder because you have, on a mountain bike, you have a big
contact patch, you have bigger knobs, you have suspension, you have more
relaxed geometry, you have flat bars. Instead of narrow drop bars, you have
all these things set up to make your bike more capable to ride over terrain.

Whereas on a cycle cross
bike, you don't notice it. Uh, or it's, it's way tougher. I almost have like a poorly
thought through like a metaphor. What's here thing? sounds good. Lay it on a, So like, uh, I can play
guitar to the extent that I can like see chords and I can play chords, but I can't
like it it when I'm listening to somebody that's like improvising and they're like
playing jazz and it's something like that, that's a ty entirely different level. And I feel like when I watch a really
good cyclo cross racer, . And when they're going around the course,
like, uh, Celine del Carmen Verado, and when she's going around a course,
she makes it look so darn and easy that I don't realize how complicated
it actually is, what she's doing. And the one thing about mountain bikes
is it's almost like playing guitar here instead of a real guitar because
it's like in the sense that it's like, it's like bowling with bumpers
because your equipment's designed to help you through a lot of that stuff.

So I think that's why we've seen Matthew
VanderPol come to cross country racing and just not be phased by a single thing. Cause he is like, Hey, I'm doing
this on a bike that has bad geo. And I'm not saying bad geo,
uh, like the canyon that's just cycle cross bikes, Right? Like it's been limiting,
it's been difficult. And honestly, how often are cross
country courses putting you into circumstances where your bike is fully
being like stretched to its limits? If you watch World Cup Cross
Country, that's one thing, and it might happen two times per lap,
one time per lap, maybe three. But for us, average cross
country racers and the courses we're doing, it never happens. It's not even close. We don't do the stuff that
you see in World Cups.

And whereas at a local cross,
a local cyclo cross race, , you might come across a super steep off
camera section where your bike is really being pushed to its limit. So I think it's actually more technical. Um, but it's interesting to hear
Nate's perspective cuz Nate and I view technicality, risk, fear,
all that stuff on bikes, like from a totally different lens. Mm-hmm. , it could be speed too. Like I, everything in my life is
better with speed and on and for. It's the opposite. And for mountain biking, when there's
more speed, everything is easier for me. Whereas in cyclo cross less
speed, it's more difficult. I represent the majority of
humans who have these bikes. John , you're like, I was, I didn't
win national championship, but I still was the fastest on the dis descents. And he is like, It's no problem. I don't know why you guys have any
problems with this . It's so easy. What do you think, Chad? I'm curious on Chad's thought. Uh, so, so I have two points. First off, Jonathan, you need to move on
to scales cuz you're never gonna be able to improvise if all you know are cords.

So work on your scales, , and
it's, it'll be a full game changer for you. It's just scales they play, they
just play it less normal scales. But you, if you haven't gotten
to scales yet, you're doing yourself a tremendous disservice. And then secondly, I think the
technicality of the discipline in this case cycle cross versus xco has
to be related to not just the course, but also the bike you're riding. So Jonathan kind of took my answer. Um, it, you can't say a cycle cross
course is more technical than an xco course without considering how adept the
equipment you'll be riding actually is. To do the most untechnical xco
course on a cross bike would be tremendously difficult. The most technical cycle cross
course on a full suspension mountain bike would be a breeze.

So I think because cycle
cross is performed on. Technical to very technical courses on
equipment that isn't really built around navigating those courses super well. It it just, you have to relate those two
and, and it makes me lean toward thinking cycle cross is the more technical sport. I feel validated. Thank you. Y'all are, y'all are this next one. This is why drop her post
would be super helpful. In cross country or in cycle? Cross in every like I had one. Really? Yeah. And it's because your bike is more
limiting and like one of the main limiting factors of a cycle cross bike is where
your saddle is when you're going down steep little stuff and your turns.

That's why I'm, It'll happen. It's just, you know, like give
it probably two years and we're gonna start to see more and more
bikes with droppers in cyclo cross. I think. Yeah. Here for it. All right. High carb intake has taken priority over
power to weight ratio in the pro peloton. I, I'm taking a lot of these
first, but I have issue with the context of this, of that. The, what they're trying to say is that
high carb intake will make you gain. Which is not true. It's if you have, I'm not reading it that way. Yeah, well, well taking priority
over power to weight ratio, which makes me think that they think that
if you lower your carbon intake, you increase your power to weight ratio. Where in fact if you increase your carb
intake, you will probably increase your power to weight ratio cuz you have more
power and you can still consume the same amount of calories every day and not gain weight.

I was thinking of it from like the
measuring stick perspective, that like people measure themselves
by power to weight ratio and now they're measuring themselves by
how many carbs they can take in. Oh, I gotcha. You know? Um, but yeah, you bring up a
really good point with that. Everyone's still afraid to take in more
and when they heard Mateo Jorgensen on our podcast, they took into 160 grams an hour. Mm-hmm. like I bet people are like,
Oh my gosh, he's gonna be fat. And Dr. , Dr. Pegga was telling us what 1 60, 180
some people on Bo are doing per hour. Uh, yes. So not everyone pro teams,
there's like a pro Peloton. People are seeing that now
and getting great perform. We've been saying that for a while,
uh, , but not, not everyone has come to this, but I think the way to
get to a high power to weight ratio is through high carbon take, uh,
during your ride, better recovery.

You come out of that little like valley
faster and throughout your day, and this is what we know about Propel the
best in the world are now doing this. Yeah. What do you think, Chad? Mm-hmm. ? Uh, well, without getting pedantic
or getting lost in how this question could be interpreted, I think it's
interesting that there has been a shift and, and now we're allowing writers
to more sufficiently and rather than high carbon take, let's just call it
sufficient carbon take, let's, let's talk about actually fuel the work that
is required of the athletes rather than overdoing it and, you know, affecting body
composition and therefore power to weight. So getting the intake right has shown,
it's demonstrated across the board the athletes, endurance athletes
especially just perform better. You can't, it's undeniable and they
can go to ridiculous high intakes and seldom, if ever, gain weight.

It's, it is kind of recognizable too. I've, I've watched over maybe just this
season of Grand Tours, I've seen less Lean Rider and they're still extremely lean. But typically you would see, I mean,
they'd send, uh, Instagram posts of, uh, the, just the, the, the ban
sticking out on some cyclist lower leg. But even just watching them ride
their bikes and seeing their arms, which typically had used to have
just tons of definition, um, in, in the sweat and the light and
all that, definitely affected it.

But you could see they
were like paper skin lean. And that's not as common. Now. I notice so much of it now,
and I think it's two things. First, they're hydrating better and
they're retaining more salt, and therefore they're gonna be just a little bit
puffer, but also they're more nourished. And that extra little bit of fat, though,
the perceptible to us, perceptible to them is so performance beneficial. And keep in mind what Chad's
talking about is like, I mean, they genuinely looked unhealthy. That was the look of a cyclist. Chad's not talking about wherever you
are, listener, going from your position to then gaining a little bit of fat. No, Like if you feel your work
and you do your workouts, it's not going to increase your body fat. Like this is just looking at people
that truly look malnourished and then now they look nourished and big shock. Their performance is better. So, yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a beautiful thing to see.

We love it. Good segue the next one though. Intermittent fasting
is an eating disorder. I agree with this hot take, but
interesting to hear what you guys say. I think it has the potential to be a
form of disordered eating if, if people do it wrong and they undernourished,
uh, skipping breakfast, uh, can, can work for a number of people. And we talked about the benefits
and how well they translate to endurance performance. And it's not, it's definitely
not straightforward and I don't think it's recommended. I wouldn't recommend it for most athletes,
but, uh, I think it can be done in a way that is, uh, moderate and acceptable
and probably doesn't come at the detriment of performance or good health. Mm-hmm. ,
what I think I, I was listening to, uh,
some, uh, researchers, uh, we've, uh, uh, Chad, Nate and I, uh, talk about
quite a lot, but, um, I was listening to them talk about this and how in most
cases, I think there was a study done where they were looking at actual calorie
intake with intermittent fasting and like intermittent fasting just put people in a
calorie deficit and like, uh, and that's why they lost weight and makes it, I
think that there's, Yeah, and, and like I think there's just because it's harder
to fit all that food in into a compressed timeline or less meals, less opportunity.

Right. And uh, so I think that there's a lot
of misattribution there where people think that there's some sort of magic
there when it's just like you're eating less, then you're burning. Like that's. It's how close, you know, there are plenty of people who live off two meals
a day and even endurance athletes who live off two meals a day and they don't
have to label it intermittent fasting, and it's still helpful and orogenic. So it, it just because you only eat a
couple meals a day doesn't relegate you to this or promote you to this description. It, it's, it doesn't have to
be something that it's not. Yeah, it's, it's, um, I'm gonna read some definitions
or some signs of disordered eating, um, because it's really your thoughts
around it rather than exactly if you do intermittent faster or not. So frequent dieting, anxiety associated
with specific foods or meal skipping chronic weight fluctuations, rigid
rituals and routines surrounding food and exercise, feelings of guilt and shame.

Associating with eating, that's a big one. Preoccupation with food, weight
and body image that negatively impacts quality of life. A feeling of loss and control around food. Including compulsive eating habits,
using exercise, food restriction, fasting or purging to make up for bad foods
consumed and bad foods and air quotes. Um, so depending, I know some people,
especially cyclist, they do have a preoccupation with the food and weight and
spot power to bot power to weight ratio. Um, if it negatively impacts
your quality of life, you could be on the sign the side of it. If it doesn't and you enjoy it and
it's not a big deal, um, you might not. But if you hear some of those things,
I would, um, suggest talking to a therapist, um, and, and learning more. Uh, yeah. Cause it's very easy to slip into this. It is. And I don't think I've known anyone that's
done intermittent fasting that hasn't done it for, um, like a body composition change
or something that isn't, uh, sustainable or necessarily healthy, you know? Um, so I think that's why I associate
this with disordered eating.

I know my perspective
is pretty extreme, but. Yeah, I even calorie deficits are
like self harm to me, so I know my, um, perception's a little skewed. Yeah, I a hundred percent
Ivy support you in that. I, I've drift. I've struggled with disordered eating
for like, my whole life, really. Like, uh, and it's a thing
where I'll ebb and flow. And the biggest, I know this sounds
silly, I, I'm just sharing this cuz hopefully it's helpful to somebody,
but the biggest way that I can tell that I'm slipping again and I'm
falling back into it is when the rest of my life is suddenly not enjoyable. I know that sounds weird,
but it's a small thing. And suddenly like I get less joy
from spending time with my family. I get less joy from my hobbies, from
riding my bike, from everything else.

And if I look back, , I probably
let some aspect of my life fall into disordered eating once again. So that's at least what, what I look
for, and I have to be present about that. And I struggle with it all the time. And, and it's okay to struggle with it. I think that like, uh, I'm not saying,
uh, encouraging people that have never struggled with it, to struggle with it. That's not what I mean by that comment. But instead for those that do struggle
with it, to know that like, uh, you are in good company in the sense that there's
so many people that, that go through this. And so there's nothing wrong with you. This is John's a triathlete now, so he's a good person. Not just athletes, right? ? No. Yeah. But go ahead Chuck.

In the case of endurance athletes
and really any strength to weight emphasis type of athlete, anyone who
I emphasizes strength to weight, you know, you could be a physique athlete,
you could be a wrestler, a fighter, uh, you know, an endurance athlete. Of course, anyone who. Has to manage that balance
for long periods of time. I don't know how you can rise above this. It, it, it has to at
some point affect you. It has to at some point kind of cot
you, pull you down a bit until hopefully you recognize it and remedy it. I, every one of those symptoms that may
list off, list it off, that, that list just now, all of those are relatable. I've experienced each and
every one of those at different points, at some points in time. Too many of 'em all at once. And that's where you, you either
get a handle on it or you don't. If, if you're experiencing so many of
those symptoms and you're still not just coming to terms with the fact
that this is not healthy, this is not something I can perpetuate healthfully,
this is probably at some point not even gonna benefit my performance.

That's, that's where the issue lies. But if, if you've been in and out of
these scenarios and you've recognized the harm that it can do or that it is doing,
but you've risen above it, you know, having been exposed to it, I, I think
that describes more of us than, than I think that describes the majority of us. So just because you experience these
things or affected by these things, don't, don't get down on yourself. Don't necessarily think you have
disordered eating or you have an issue or you need to speak to a therapist. That may well be, do, recognize
the issue for what it is. Do recognize that you have power, you can
control it, you can tweak some of those things and, and, and just loosen the reins
a bit and let yourself enjoy life a bit, nourish thoroughly, and, and perform well. Good advice, Chad. All right. Next one. Cycle cross. Pre rides are overrated. Enjoy the surprise and extra time. Get ready. . And then another one that said, hot
laps are overrated, which is just like a, um, pre-race lap that you do at
speed, just to kind of see how it rides.

Uh, be bold. Race cold. .
No, this is, there's some to this. I know you guys are gonna have a different
thing that I said, but the not knowing. There's this fear that can happen
when you're not very technical, that if you do know and you write
it like before, it's super scary. But then at race, when you're,
you're, you're like at race speed and you're o you're okay. And it's really not that dangerous. Then you just write it. Uh, but if you see it ahead of
time, you know, and you fear it and then you have problems, that's relatable to me with my son. And like a movie, like we were
gonna watch Jurassic Park. I did not tell him about all the
scary parts beforehand or else he would not have watched that So I had to run him through
cold .

We got it, man. Don't worry. You're okay. Ivy, what do you think? Uh, I super disagree. I think you should pre ride
over and over and over again. and overthink absolutely everything. is my approach for sure. . No, I, I get, um, there's so
much enrichment to pre-writing with other people too. Um, especially at these UCI races
when they're UCI only pre ride times. And you get to see the ways in which other
really skilled writers are approaching these weird technical features. You can learn a lot from
other writers that way. Um, I, I think you should pre ride. What do you think Chad .

I think you're gonna get surprised
whether you want to or not. I think whether you pre-write
it and you know it backward and forward, it doesn't matter because
you're gonna take it at different speeds under different conditions. In congestion, someone's gonna be
pushing you faster than you want to go. Someone's gonna be towing
you faster than you can go. You're gonna end up in a
situation where you're surprised if you're really racing hard. So whether you pre-write it or don't, the
surprise is coming and, and I do think there's a bit of a downside to observing
the fast laps as opposed to writing them.

Because I remember every time, I
don't know how many times, it didn't Nevada City, but a handful at least
every time I went, that bottom turn just spooked me when I was walking to
registration or just just surveying the course and just watching earlier
races, it just looked terrifying. But then when I'm on the course, taking
it at speed and sometimes a little faster than I'd like, it was totally manage.

But it got in my head and I had to fight
against letting it in my head and just remind myself, You've done this before. You've probably done this
particular circuit hundreds of times, you know how to do it. Relax. Yeah. Uh, changing conditions between pre
ride and race time and being surprised. I too, this happened to me really
recently at Rochester in the UCI race, , where we pre rode. And then between the last pre-grad
time in our race, it had to have rained like half an inch. It was crazy. So is that the one where you
were sliding down the hill? Yeah. Everybody needs to go to Ivy's Instagram. I hopefully it's up like where people
can see that wasn't even the craziest part. We, there's a really steep,
super steep run up section and. Hilarious but also humiliating and awful
that we horrifying up watch and just, you know, a dozen riders just sliding down. Some riders were stuck there for three or
four minutes, just unable to run up this. And we all have tow bikes. We're all skilled pro riders, and
we just could not get up this hill.

And I was like grabbing these trees
and twigs on the side of the course to get a. Live and then watching it in replay,
it was legit nightmare material. The, the material where you, or this
instances where you're in a dream and you can't run from something, you can't move. No matter how hard you tried. People were living this in
front of a broad audience. It was incredible.

Traumatizing . Yeah. You're, when you slid down the, the muddy
hill, that'll looked like fun though. Oh yeah. It was sat outta your blood. It was like wee. Well it's funny cause I saw other
riders and they did not look like they were having fun, but Ivy
was just like, she was in it. I'm gonna send it. It was awesome. It was so cool. Yeah. Well, um, Rochester has this
famously steep hill that they just make you do in 180 on. Um, and then when it's dry you can, you
mu have to muscle it up, but you can ride all the way up and then drop down. But because of this mud, um, we were all
stacked together the first time going down and you couldn't even remount. We just started slipping out and
ended up on our butts and it was so slick and so steep that we
accidentally slid down the first time.

And it's one of those features
that I'm sure that I could have ridden if, you know, I had time to
like slowly do it in a pre ride. But once we were in the race,
I was like, Well, I don't know the best way to do this. And I know that sliding on my
butt isn't that much lower. So here we go. And I just embraced it. got on my butt and it was, it
was a great slip and slide time. . I'm a professional bike race, by the way, .
Okay. All right, here we go. Are gravel bikes worth the
hype or just a marketing scam? Think, I think that this, I think
this is where, so cyclo cross bikes or like devoid, not devoid,
but mostly devoid of innovation.

They're kinda like static. And I think that gravel bikes are
where you're seeing like the innovation come from making frames that are
compliant and all these other things. The only thing is they don't like,
um, and the reason I'm comparing those two is cause they're both like
really similar in some respects. And some people use one for the. Mm. But I think they're, I don't know
if they're worth the hype entirely. I have no, I've owned gravel bikes
and I don't ever, for my riding, I don't, I've sold them all. I like, I don't need them. John, have you owned a shammy? Hagar though? ?
No, that's real.

I mean, you're, you're describing
something that's really accommodating in a geometry that's really
comfortable for that specific terrain. Because I have a lot of gravel roads
out here and I could ride, you know, put maybe, maybe my bike would take 30
threes, so put 30 threes on my road bike and ride it, and it would kind of suck. I had 30 threes on my cross bike
and I rode it and it kind of sucked. If I put anything bigger than, I
don't know, 1.8, 2.0 on a mountain bike, it will kind of suck. That's just too much bike for that. And now I have a gravel bike. 40 twos, 40 fives, whatever, just
the right tire for around here. And the riding is enjoyable. The geometry is favorable. It's comfortable. I mean, everything about it is so
specifically suited to something that's not road, but it's not
trail, it's somewhere in between. And this. It just just works in that
respect and, and it's made me truly love riding gravel roads.

I think they, what we did though, so gravel
bikes are not a marketing spa scam. They are. You feel so much better on a mark on a,
on a bike cuz of the head tube angle. The front reel's out farther so
it's more stable, descending. You don't really turn at all in a
gravel bike and then drop her pose. But I think where they're going,
John, I want your opinion on this. Mm-hmm. , we should just jump to this is hard
tail mountain bike with drop bars. That should be the gravel bike with uh,
you know, and try to just make it light. But that is so comfortable,
safe, um, fast. Oh yeah. And then you that yeah, just
that you change the geometry a little bit maybe, but maybe not. Um, just probably we're the um,
because the drop bars, you're gonna have to change the reach a little bit. But other than that, that is
the bike that I think so many people would love to have for gravel.

That would, for a lot of people. Two weeks leading In that scenario,
would you do like a, oh sorry. Like a really short or like small
front shock or like rigid mountain bike? Yeah, so Keegan for two weeks prior
to Leadville was experimenting with this on his hard tail, his high
ball, and then running drop bars. And that guy ran through a
whole lot of stems trying to find the right feel for it. That's the hard part. Like Nate said, you kind of have
to tweak the geometry so it'd feel, Cause I bet it feels a bit like
a shammy Hagar in some respects. And if you read like reviews on the
shammy, Hagar, people are like, Yeah, it's like it's floppy and it's weird. Like I think the shamgar what, by the way, can you describe that to listeners? Floppy, definitely not the, definitely
not me, but just every other one that doesn't know what that. It's the gravel bike made by evil
and they called it the shammy Hagar. And it's totally a diversion
from a lot of stuff.

Like the head tube angle is
like 64 degrees or something. 66.6. 66.6. Cuz it's, That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, uh, so like, really slack. Um, and it's like, that's like slack. That's as slack is like a lot
of trail bikes to Enduro bikes, um, which is kind of crazy. But the best way to describe that,
you know, what's that chart called when it's like, uh, lawful good
and like everything else, Chaotic, chaotic, evil, neutral and That bike is like chaotic evil on its own. It's entirely separate.

Like it's just, it's a weird bike, but I put a 200 millimeter drop around it too. Yeah. So Nas is wild. Yeah. Um, but the, and it fits
really wide tires and stuff. Um, but anyways, I, I think that the
hard tail is with like dropper bars. or with drop bars is
probably a better solution. I don't know what sort of
tweaks you'd have to make. You would have to go with like a
lower travel fork, I would think. I don't know, but hundred millimeter for. He just couldn't. Yeah. He, he said he couldn't get into a spot
where he didn't feel like kind of weirdly stretched out and then too far over the
front of the bike because it was kind of like, if you think about it, if he
was on the hoods, it was like having like a 220 millimeter stem or something. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Which is just really weird
with mountain bike geometry. It needs something like, uh, the epic
brain in the front, so that, or like the fox, um, electronic shock. So normally it's just fully locked out.

But then when you hit something on
descents on a gravel bike, which can be terrifying and you go really fast
on gravel roads, you just have all this plushness and you remain so much,
you'll have so much more traction. And on turning too, so easy, John, Right. On a turn on a gravel
road to hit some little. And have that front wheel
washout that is not fun at all. But on with a shock it would
be less likely is right? Yeah.

Yeah. And I, uh, Fox Rock Shocks MRP were the
first ones, uh, to do this, but they now have like forks for gravel bikes
that are reasonably light, and they're, they're like 80 mils or 70 mils of travel. So it's, you know, not a hundred, but
it's, it's enough to keep your front implanted when it otherwise wouldn't be. And that's like a, what is
the scary thing, you know? What sort of travel do you find on those LA Forks? Oh, yeah. I don't know. I, I've ridden a LA before and the thing
I didn't like about it is that because suspension, when you squish up, And like
when the suspension squishes, it has rebound DAMing to control the de squish
how it extends back to its full position. Mm-hmm. . And those didn't have that and it almost
felt like it made the front end more nervous in more common situations.

In some cases it helped, but like
wash board for example, it would hit this like weird point of residence
where like my front end was just, the front tire was never planted. And um, if it was choppy coming into
a turn, it felt like it gave me more bouncing back than enough bouncing back so
that it made the front end less planted. You know? So I think DAMing is really important. You need that on the, on the
clearly compression and rebound. . Um, but anyways, yeah, I, I, I don't
think gravel bikes or hype, uh, I don't personally have a use for one. Uh, in terms of the terrain that I ride
and the training and riding that I do. If I live to where Chad is, I guarantee
you I would prioritize that over a road bike and everything else. So, yeah. And let's be clear too, I mean, these are gravel
roads, rolling gravel roads and they're pretty straightforward. But there's plenty of farm
roads that are super rudded. Uh, actual fire, uh, two lane fire
roads that lead down to rivers. I mean, it gets borderline
mountain bikey in some spots.

And again, this is a bike that
has just enough capability to make that still really fun and control. What bike do you have, Chad? The S works diverge. Ooh, that bike isn't I? It's nice. I written that one. I'm quite impressed. It's quite nice. Really? I. . Yeah. Cool. Specialize in, sponsor us, surprisingly. . Okay. I'll say a bad thing about the diverge.

It's heavy man. Like compared to other gravel bikes. Holy cow. That bike is, Yeah, I'm
not super concerned. I got a bunch of stuff tucked
into the down too, but I've got 45 millimeter tires on it. I mean, I'm not looking to cut weight. I'm gonna put a dropper on it. The rock shocks no less. So yeah, not looking to stay light. It's, it's lighter than their
hard tail, or, sorry, It's heavier than their hard tail, I think. Oh wow. Like if you were to like, uh, have it set
up with like forties or 40 fives probably. And then if you had their mountain bike,
their s works hard tail one or like a really light hardtail of any brand. Yeah. Let me clear out the down tube and just weigh it
and, and we'll get some specs on that. Cool. But just to, for everybody else,
the weight of your bike isn't always the thing you wanna optimize. Exactly. I mean, John knows this, but just
because it weighs a little more doesn't mean like you might end up more tired,
more crashes, slower dis descents, um, on a, on a bike that's less capable.

For sure. Well said. All right. Dads, uh, the road to peak dad
fitness is 30 minute workouts. Respect 30 to 45. If, if the shoe fits, if
it's like what works for you? Yeah. Like don't discredit the fact that you
can actually do quite a lot with just consistency of, with 30 minute workouts. Mm-hmm. , a hundred percent. If you're in peak dad mode where you
are, two, you're getting less sleep.

Uh, John's baby is teething right now. Instagram said, Please send help. Yes. , Do you wake up? How many times per night
do you wake up, John? I mean, it's, uh, well, we're just starting,
so, but it, it's from the last time. It's like as much as 10 times a
night because they're just constantly uncomfortable, poor little things. So, but it's, it's brutal.

Like right now, I don't know how athlete. , how do you have kids and do like a
high volume triathlon training plan? Don't like you don't have a job or
you don't see your family. Yeah. Like you can't, one of those,
you can't fit it all in. Right? Yeah, I'm, I'm sorry. Someone probably can. Yeah. Yeah. You know who's good at that is, um,
Justin Thomas, he would, you know, goes to sleep early than wakes up at
like four in the morning and gets his trading done by like 6:00 AM Uh, yeah.

The good imagine early part is,
is tough when you have kids too sometimes, You know what I mean? Like Yeah. And to de-stress. Yeah. Cuz you've gotta, Well, and you've gotta
be able to take care of the kids and get 'em down and then if your partner
needs just time, you know, it's, you know, it's just, it always changes. But they do all the runs with the kid. . Yeah. Yeah. Right. That's, I'm, I'm looking at a low volume
try plan that I'm planning on starting in November, and I'm just like, Whoa, I'm
gonna need some faith to make this work.

Like, you know, it's, and I'm
planning on getting up, Actually, somebody asked me this the other
day, like, how do you fit it all in? I don't know. Like, and, and I'll figure it out. But, you know, early morning
you're just the workouts, John lunchtime, short workouts, and
you, you do what you can with what you have, you know, like, so yeah. I don't know. True. I imagine the people that make it work
with kids, and I have volume too, just have the right combo of kids sleeps
well, uh, lots of family support.

Like even just like meal support,
childcare, Like I'm sure the stars have a pool that's close. Right. A number of different ways to make that work. I'm super fortunate here too, like
at Train Road in the sense that, you know, I have friends that have
jobs where it's like, you need to sit in your chair and you need to be
there from this time to this time.

Whereas at train road, we're like,
Hey, we've got a lot of stuff to do. Let's get our work done. You know? Um, but at the same time, if I could, if
I need to go swim at lunch and it doesn't fit into a 30 minute break, that's okay
because I can get my work done still. Like, so I'm, you know, there's, I'm
really fortunate to recognize that I don't want to pitch myself as being somebody
that's like up against unique stops. And, uh, we have a four day work week,
so having Fridays off helps a lot. Uh, yeah. Does we? Yeah. I haven't announced that yet, but we
started this two months ago and the idea is that, uh, you can, there's so much
wasted time and you get so tired that during the week that that extra day it's
actually better and more productive for everyone to rest, recover, and come back.

Um, and then we also do is
Monday we do a no, uh, like no slack day and no meeting day. So Slack, we messages if you need to for
your work, but less like public channel. Uh, company wide channel messages and
then no meetings so you can get into flow. So you come back and you
can really work hard. The funny thing is though, at this
company when the first time we did it, we have so many athletes
who are like, three day weekend. That means I can smash
myself three days in a row. And they came back Monday just trashed. They're like, Wow, I did like, you
know, 500 miles on the weekend. This is a crazy, I love this. Uh, we, we talked about that
to kind of, to balance it too. And, um, we also don't work four tens. We work four, four eights. And then, like you said, John,
flexibility inside of that because it, for knowledge workers, it's not about
the time in the chair, it's, it's about how often and how you get into flow.

Yeah. And getting to a flow state and then
having the right, you know, organization and know what you're gonna be building and
doing and communication, stuff like that. Uh, so that's, we started that and
I think more people are gonna do. Yeah, agreed. But first my Friday was like,
that's an amazing training day. And now I'm like, it's my day with family
and to organize the rest of my life. And that's been the cool thing that's
helped is that then through the rest of the other four days, I can focus and
push way harder in work because I've got, you know, I'm, I'm more balanced.

But then also my life is just
more organized to allow that. Yeah. Well it should, it should translate
to the athlete perspective too. You don't, it doesn't
mean add more training. It, it just means your training's gonna
be of higher quality, so keep everything the same and I just enjoy this extra day
where you get to do, do something easier, do family things, do real life things. Mm-hmm. ,
recover, rest, sleep in
an extra hour or two. Yep. Uh mm-hmm. , walk in the park, whatever, have donut. . Yeah, exactly. Treat you yourself. I did a survey and uh, it was weird, but
a hundred percent of the company said we should keep the four day work week. Yeah, that's really cool. . Yeah, it was a weird result.

First company-wide consensus ever. And we're still, uh, I feel like we're
still super productive actually. I feel like we're more motivated
cuz everyone I am, I do say this is always some perpetual beta. I will turn this car around on
the way to Disneyland and end it. Good luck doing that by the way. That's a hard thing to do. Look back, you know what will happen is everyone will
say, You should pay me 20% more. Cuz now you're asking
me to work another day. Yeah. That'll be the, that will, that
will, that's what will happen if I say that. Hmm. It's all good. That's an aircraft carer
with a broken rudder. It's just No turn in that ship. .
Yeah. Park can not be turned around. Sorry, . All right. Uh, twofold. Hot take. Uh, first high resistance cycling training
like hills, bigger efforts, et cetera, can take strength training's place.

And on the other side of it, got a
hot take that said big year work is BS .
Funny you got both Yeah. It's just known though, .
Okay. First off, resistance training
and, and endurance training. Never the twins shall meet. They're, they're not the same thing. I mean, we're, we're talking about high
force demands and high duration demands. Two different animals. So when endurance athletes do
strength training, it's to improve things that they're not gonna be
able to improve with low force work, which is all of our endurance work.

So there, there, there's
two sides of the coin. And then bigger work is, I
think, viewed too narrowly. People think they're doing high
resistance cycling training and therefore doesn't have any value. And in that light, in that, uh, from
that viewpoint, that's probably true. That's mostly true. Big air work can be used for
really productive things. In the case of a, a highly anaerobic
or glycolytic athlete, it can help them shift some of that to the
more oxidative side of things. I mean, grand tour or pro or world level
writers use this a lot in the off season to train some oxidative capacity into
their faster to it fibers to make them be able to do five or six hours of work
before they have to muster that sprint.

So it, it can be very purposeful in the
right context if you just go out and do big year work just to do big year work. I question its validity, but if you
understand what that big year work is aimed at, then it can be very product. Hmm, that's, I chat at like, uh, I was
just doing, oh gosh, I can't remember the name of the workout and I'll probably
say the wrong one and somebody will call me out for not having it in there. So I'm not gonna say the name right now. Uh, but I was doing, uh, in a lot of our
sweet spot base plans and the triathlon base plans, everything else you'll
come across and even traditional base plan, you'll come across workouts that
ha break up your intervals with this low, or I should say, don't wanna say
low gear, I wanna say this like low rpm sort of training that you end up doing. Uh, and it breaks it up.

It's a great way to do it. And yes, like Chad said,
it satisfies those goals. I'm a big fan of it and, and it's
proper place, but I can't stand this whole thing that like, yeah,
it's just like strength training. Like first of all, if you were strength
training, imagine going to the gym and doing 60 reps per minute and doing
these 60 reps per minute and half.

Like, and also with assisted
not doing your full body weight. Like you would never go to the gym
and do that exercise , you know, for maybe five minutes at a time. Yeah. Yeah. And if you do it, what
do you get out of it? I mean, that's right. This just doesn't compute, right. We're thinking about, it's
just a totally different deal, you know? Yeah.

The things that you actually get out of
strength training outside of the bike. Um, and you really can't replicate
that just by doing big year efforts. Um, you totally end up on like
an Instagram page though. Like if somebody was, somebody
would totally film you. Like half repping at 60 reps per minute. like with bands trying to assist you. Oh man, can we stop filming people in gyms? I feel so bad when I see that it's true. They're just doing their best. It's not right, but can
like just leave them alone. .
Yeah. Good. Right. Okay. Ghana has the hour record, or
sorry, Ghana has put the hour record on the shelf for a few. Um, so recently broke the hour
record on the Velodrome Road, 56.792 kilometers, or 35.29 miles in one hour. Uhhuh . Insane. That's, Yeah, he has, he has, and he hasn't because
he's gonna, he's gonna up that and he's gonna do it well inside
of the, the next few years.

He's probably gonna do it soon. I think his appetite has been wedded. He, he recognizes he can break 57
kilometers and that's the next new goal. And that's not gonna be
touched by anybody but him. And once he's done that, and even
once what he's done right now is gonna stem the test of a lot of time, I mean, he could go to just
avedro in a higher altitude and he could, or just have
more favorable air pressure. I mean, Wiggins got screwed by
bad air pressure on the day. I mean, Wiggins wouldn't have
done what, what Ghana's done.

But yeah, it is definitely in, in a lot
of ways, up to the HODs to determine this is like when you see the marathon
runners where like, Their average marathon pace, like you can't run
once around the track at their pace. Yes. How often can you ride 35 miles per hour. How long can you ride on
that, on your TT bike? Like where it's Slack, like I don't It's funny money. It's like a different, a minute. I mean, I don't know if I can even do
it for a minute, like I know, right. I don't think I could do it for a minute. I've only done it downhill. I sprint, I 35 when I sprint .
And we're, we're, we're talking about
a unique individual too, because this is the guy who has broken
the World Hour record by a lot. Beat Boardman's Superman time
and, and has also posted a new world record pursuit time. I mean, he's gone sub four
in an individual pursuit. He's, he's got things at
both ends of the spectrum. Within two weeks, turn him loose
on, on, on a sprint championship if, if the guy wanted to bulk up,
and he could probably do that too.

It's ridiculous. His capabilities. Any six four, which makes me
like, yeah, almost, almost me. 80 ish kilos and ridiculous power. It's insane. 193. I haven't read. What? Hey, good job Nate. Um, I haven't read what his
power is, Have you Chad? I don't, uh, they had, so, so they, they
basically extrapolated and I'm sure the power's out there, but I, I, I hunted
long and hard and I could not find it. But they were saying for him at a,
at a 0.18 I, uh, or a CDA versus a 0.2, he had to be somewhere
between, I think four 60 and four 20. And I, I think he must have
been somewhere around four 50. But, but I don't know and I wish I
could find that and if someone knows that and, and we're not live, but if
someone can share that on the chat, eventually I'd, I'd really be curious
cuz I've hunted and I can't find it.

But it is interesting to note
that he has area for improvement. I mean, I think he did
nail his pacing strategy. He definitely negative split
it, how well he did it. He went out a little hot his lap times. Yeah. So he's got where they needed to be. He kind of fell apart in the end. His CDA was somewhere between 0.2 and 1.8. I don't think, I don't know if they
measured it, but if he's more toward 0.2 then you can get down quite a lot. I mean that, that small margin between
0.2 and 0.18 is a pretty big one. Dent Bigham emphasizes that by being
down way down at 0.15, which blows my mind and doing, he's a seal. Similarly fast time seal,
a temporary world record at much less power than Ghana. So I, I still think there's, it's not low
hanging fruit by any means, but there's still fruit on the tree and he can.

Pluck it and, and probably make
that 57 and have that record untouched for a long time. Nice. Yeah. John, what was your cda? That was incredibly low. 2.1. I was 0.198. Yeah. Is what he said when I, when I
wrapped my hands, uh, very tightly. I'm not in that position anymore. I've done a lot of work on my
TT bike to change that around. Yeah. And that's with like, you
are much shorter than him.

That is just crazy that he's six four, he's six foot full,
he's five inches taller than me. 1 93 centimeters. Like that is, is, it does not compute. Like, I don't understand. And what's crazy is the, like
the four, like if said four 40 FTP or four 60, that's not crazy. Um, that's not realistic high. Yeah. It's, it's, that's very realistic. And I think we've even seen,
uh, like NorCal racers who are that hyped with that ftp. But now with that cda, that's the,
that's the, the magic between the two.

I know that he's done like over 500 for
shorter time trials, uh, in road races. Uh, whether it's been,
you know, granted or, or different to prologue, he was 5 20, 520
watts for like minutes for the last, Yeah. And for the last two and
a half K it was six 70. It is ridiculous. He's That's what I'm saying. We're working with a unique individual
here and they're steering him at the right things at the right time. Although I question that too because,
and that's another reason that makes me think he can do 57 k plus because he's
coming directly off of Tour de France.

Mm-hmm. Worlds. He had a big season starting
in February, leading up to it. So he even remarked that he's
carrying more fatigue into this than he would optimally. Like What a beast. Okay, well I'm gonna retire
from bike greasing now. .
No, you gotta use lots .
Yeah. All right, moving on. People use published
research to replace thinking. This is a good hot take. , I feel like I see this a lot with my
role in Trainer Road, where with like the science of getting faster podcasts
and, um, I think people have access to research and will read excerpts from
it and, um, apply it without context.

Um, research is tricky for
us, Normies to have access to Yeah. We don't, we abuse the power. Yeah. Like, you know, uh, yeah. I, I, you hear that a lot where people
just cite a study and then they move on and they expect everybody to take
that it like for fact and take it for granted when it's, in most cases
the sighting comes with a heavy layer of, of individual perspective
that's applied to that, you know? Mm-hmm. . Yeah. It's the whole abstract versus like reading the
whole study where, um, the abstract says one thing, but if you read the
study, , the context of where this thing is applicable is extremely small and it
doesn't, it's not what the people take the abstract and like extrapolate it to like
everything rather than just what it says.

And that's the common thing
that people get messed up. And I don't think it's actually. Malicious. I think people read the the abstract
and say, Hey, this says this. But the studies take, I mean, to
really read a study, it can take like two and a half, three hours, Right. Uh, to like really understand it. Cause those things are dense and go
through the data and look at it and be like, Okay, I understand what this is. And then to put it into context, who the
age range was, what the group was, where they were in their fitness, all this sort of stuff. The methods of the study you have to
like, and I've, what I've found is that if you're digging into a topic, you see
one study done on something, and then you read another and another or another,
and suddenly you start to make a sense of the methods, you get more context around
it, and then you start to recognize maybe weaknesses in a certain type of method.

Yeah. And how a conclusion that
you have about this actually. You shouldn't form that conclusion
in your head, Jonathan, because that method that they used might
throw a wrench into those folks. Like it's, No, that's, it's tricky. That's actually a really
good way to put it. You know how when, uh, you get a new
iPhone and you have to do the facial recognition thing and you have to take
it and scan all aspects of your face, and the circle starts to fill in, fill
in, fill in, you've missed a spot. So you raise it up here and it
fills that spot in, and eventually you have a complete circle.

That's kind of the journey of being able
to look at research and translate it to, to application, to, to recognize the gap
in between the limitations, et cetera. And I think this, this statement,
um, people use published research to replace thinking. I think there is a distinct
defining line between reading the research and quote, getting it. And I think that's where the, the,
the, the wheat is separated from the chf, the cream rises, et cetera. The people who can take the literature
and, and make it useful and not just infer or, um, make these, make these. Big leaps, but say, I mean, that's
just another little bit that completes that full circle, right? You, you, you now have this
little extra bit of understanding. It doesn't get you all the way there,
but now you have a better understanding in general and you can build upon that. But until you have that full circle,
you're never, you're never gonna know all of it, but you can at least get it. You, you can understand, okay,
this is a small part of it. I'm gonna factor that into the things
I know and I'm gonna move forward with this new little bit of understanding.

And I'm gonna continue that unending
quest to further understand so much of the difficulty of biological systems and
performance and how those things relate. Um, two researchers aren't
gods and they make mistakes. I remember we, we were looking at one
study for, I think I told this story before, I'll say it again, for the science
of getting faster, where everybody, it was a blind time trial on compu trainers and
everyone negatively split the time trial. Like every single person I
didn't realize, and I know, I was like, how can that happen? Like ever when that happens, and
Chad, as you know, on a comp trainer, if you like, as the wheel heats up,
unless you do a spin down, you will, uh, the resistance gets easier. So you'll actually, it look like
you're putting out more power. And during this thing, they never
calibrated, they didn't do like a warp of tower or do that, they just started.

So that makes perfect sense while
everyone would negatively split and thus the measuring is wrong
and thus you kind of have to, you do have to invalidate the study. It's. It's, it's not right with that. And, but that, that, that, that
study in particular is exactly what we're talking about here. And it, it kind of shaped my view and
helped me, Nate, come along in this whole, whole this, this pathway, this,
this, uh, tendency to, to actually starting to understand this stuff.

And, and you caught something that
should have been so glaringly obvious to me, considering this is what I
did for better part of five years and reminded people every day. Have you calibrated? And when we saw the unusual numbers, did
you calibrate and nine times outta 10? Nope. In the one time outta 10,
it actually was a good day. But it did remind me that, man,
you can just miss one thing. And it doesn't invalidate
this, the science, but it does call it into question. It does make you think or make you
recognize, I can't take this at, at first glance, there's more going on here. They miss something crucial. Mm-hmm. ,
Good advice, guys. All right. Uh, this is gonna be a great one. Structured training is overrated. Just ride lots, sometimes hard.

Just rolling you. Ivy , I want you, I would love to
go toe to toe with this person. in any race scenario. .
This is Merck's era
thinking in it, it worked. It mes with error. It's not, I mean, I think everyone
who's tried plug Trina Road, you ride for whole bunch of times. You do like a month of structured
training and you're like, Oh my gosh, this is insane. Why didn't you do this my whole life? I wasted so much time. It is, uh, we would not be a
company if this, if you could just ride lots, sometimes hard. If that's all it was, we wouldn't be here. I'm gonna start. Well, it implies that you un unlimited
time, first off, which you don't. And again, it it, it calls back
to Mercks era training and racing. And they did what they did because
that's what they had to work with.

I mean, you tell me what, what could
Eddie Merks have done with Trainer Road? I mean, what could he have done? Which is structured training? A more general sense. .
We're gonna get plane for that. Just say with like a power beater and .
That's, I said structure
structured training. Yeah. With, with anything. Just, just more information. I'm gonna stir the pot a bit at here. Just ride lots, sometimes hard. That sounds super enticing. Like you tell me. Uh, that I'm gonna get a lot
for a little, I'm in right? Like, like the, my brain's in. Okay, moving on. You don't need an off season
if you do zero intensity and only do long endurance rides.

Chad, I think you probably
have good input on this one. Uh, who so. The off season to achieve certain
things that may best be accomplished if you just get away from the bike for
a little while, uh, an off season and a, a hiatus, a brief, you know, two
week hiatus are not the same thing. So if we're talking a multi-month, you
know, even a couple month hiatus from training a true off season, I, I, I kind
of agree with this, as long as there's. Uh, at some point you have to create a
distinct desire to get back on the bike. And if you can do it by doing long
endurance rides, that's all good and fine, uh, in this, and it's
hard to marry this all together.

But if it's a true off season and
it's for a couple months at time and you're at a time and you're not
incorporating any intensity to that, be prepared to take the fitness,
hit that, that's going to dull out. If we're talking a couple weeks,
you can get away with just about anything entirely off the bike. Just long endurance rides if you
find that cathartic and refreshing. But that intensity comes into play
if you're gonna extend that beyond a couple weeks because you're gonna start
to take a serious hit that you may not be able to walk back when you start
your next season's worth of training. What about you looking for. Somebody took a year off. Oh, you're serious. Sure. Training .

You, you got a lot to ask for a friend .
Yeah. You remember that 170 wat FTP you had? Well, 180 9 sir. Yeah. Sorry. You robbed me. Sorry. No, that's a full 10%. That's real. Uh, yeah, you're you're gonna take
a big hit and so am I I've been off the bike for a couple weeks
and, uh, or a couple months, sorry. But, uh, is what it is. I mean, I think those things come
about organically and, and, and if that's the case, then you kind of ride
that wave and just, it, it spits you out on whatever beats you end up on. And then you get to decide whether or
not you want to do the work necessary to bring you back where you need to be.

Do you understand that? It's gonna be a bit of a, a bit of a swim. Okay. I, I, Show me the rider
that does zero intensity. I dunno, maybe this question's
hypothetical and that's the case, but I bet somebody's asking this and
like, I never do intensity and, and I see so many people say that, and
then if you actually look at what they do, , they're chasing calms and Yeah. Right. Ivy and so much when athletes, uh, you
know, writing questions about, uh, their workouts and workouts outside,
and like Nate mentioned a while ago when we released workout levels, v2,
how people would be surprised, uh, when what they actually think they're
doing outside doesn't align with, um, what they think they're doing aligns
with what they're actually doing. And that's so common that athletes think
that they're only doing endurance and staying in zone two and absolutely not or they're just killing it.

This was such a hard VO two backs
ride, but no, you, you just had little hard efforts, but not like
sustained VO two max that will mm. Not even on offs. Right. Let the, you gotta be ramped up for
a while and you do that with on and offs or sustained work, um mm-hmm. and they just did little Ted Works
that efforts maybe me anaerobic verse that felt like B two max, but were not. Mm-hmm. , I think the best recipe, or at least one
of the best recipes in the event that you want to do two months, you just wanna
ride for the love of it is to keep it, but, but you still have your eyes on the,
the bigger picture and you want to have good fitness when you come back and you
wanna be competitive that following season is to do truly easy rides and sprinkle
'em with, with truly hard efforts.

And, and that, that
sounds not super specific. I'm not talking percentages of FTP
here, but I think everyone understands what easy actually feels like if
they can make themselves do it, and what heart actually feels like if,
again, they can make themselves do it. Hey, hot take workouts level V2 is gonna be like when
someone first gets a power meter and they thought they were writing Smooth and they
see their power, like, which it's, people are gonna look at it and be like, Mm-hmm. I don't, this isn't true. I think I'm way better than this. And people go, I had a broken power meter. It jumps around all this time. I'm a very smooth writer, and it turns
out you are not, and of course isn't gonna measure smoothness, but just
the, the, the relationship between fitness improvement workouts or
rides and, uh, how hard a ride feels.

They're not apples to apples. And you can get the same, it can feel
just as hard and you can get a big fitness improvement for the future. Or you can ride this really hard
and not really gain fitness. And this goes to that previous
question about just ride hard sometimes, sometimes hard. We've all seen this. You just write sometimes
hard in a group ride. It's way different than if you're on
that weekend, you do a two hour interval workout versus you do a, the shootout. And, uh, yeah, no, it's hard. But it's not the, it's not the same. Although our skills, there's room,
Sorry, before someone hates us, there's of course skills, things and stuff. We've talked about this many, many times. We, we covered it really
well last week, right? Um, with, uh, IV and Alex
and Keegan and stuff.

Uh, I, If I could take like a principle
based approach to this one, you don't need an off season if you do zero
intensity and only long endurance rides. Where's the training principle
of novelty of novel stimulus in place here, like our body? Reacts to novel stimulus, and if you just
do the same thing the whole time, having that time off is going to be beneficial. I'm almost certain, just because it's
going to, in this weird hypothetical situation that you only ride at zero
intensity and only do low intensity, it's at least gonna give your body
a little bit of a break from it, and then allow it to be able to take on
something that will feel a bit fresh. You know, I know it's not totally novel,
but still in this case, I'd still Yeah. Take a break, just mix of
things up a little bit. You know, There's no reason to just
do the same thing every day forever. Yeah. I'm, I'm backing up a little bit,
but what, when a just said when he looked at a, an UNM file or a raw
data file, those are in my early days of data analysis with my athletes.

That was super offputting trying
to determine any sort of signal in that sea of noise, trying to see. What this athlete was doing
without smoothing it and getting a, a, a broader picture of it. But it did even then, even in an UNM
smooth file that was just all over the place, just like a, an EKG of a
person who's completely fibrillating, it, you could see where you were. Welcome to my power work. You can see though, where they were reasonably steady and where
the surges came, there was a, a pretty distinct diversions between, you know,
moderate, moderate to high, but steady intensity, and then the real hard stuff. So even in those raw data
files, you could see it.

So if you can look at a raw data
file and you can't differentiate between when you're going moderately
hard or god forbid, easy and hard, then you're doing it wrong. Mm-hmm. .
Good stuff, guys. All right. Hot take. People overdo the warmup for crits and
are depleted and overheated at the start. I think that's super true. I see that a lot. I'll, I'll, I'll kick this one off.

It's, uh, first off, I'm, I'm not
overly concerned with the depletion cuz Cris at the high end are typically
90 minutes and you can come into that, load it up enough to probably struggle
through it, and then just a little bit of onboard nutrition will get you through
it in a, in a well nourished state. The overheating though, I think is the,
the big argument to make and I think over the years I've heard of athletes
who talk about warming up for a 60 minute crit for an hour or 90 minutes as though
it's a badge of courage or something they should be, uh, celebrated for. And it is just not, It's, it's, first
off, that's way too much work to do prior to doing a whole lot of work. I, I feel like that should be so obvious. Shouldn't have to state it, but the
overheating is a real concern, especially when you're sitting on a trainer.

You're not even riding around a course. So if you're revving up your. internal temperature, your core
temperature before something that's gonna really rev it up again. It seems so obvious. I shouldn't have to say it's
not the right way to go. Yeah. And this approach would be
different for Cris, right, Chad? Than something like across
race or like short track? Yeah, across disciplines it's all
gonna be, you know, shades gray. So whether it's, I mean there, there
are races you can roll into with zero warmup cuz it's 200 mile race. And although there are those same
races who are the top end of the thing, the top end of the competitors
are gonna hit it real hard from the start and you probably should be warm.

So it's uh, uh, no overlap or
overarching broad claims we can make. John, John, what's the shortest or least
warmup you've ever had for a cri and how did it work out? Zero pin on a number. it just roll up to the, Yeah, roll up. And like, I think even at a
local CRI I rolled up when they. Blew the whistle and I was just like
getting clipped in in the parking lot. And then I just kind of caught
onto the tail end of the group. I I see. Do you make it work? Yeah. Yeah. I see this with juniors doing
way too much of a warmup. Um, it's really common. So junior mountain biking, like in the
Nyka League and stuff, they're like, they do like a blowout effort, so like,
really like, like an all out spin on the rollers or something beforehand and
they do like six of 'em or something.

And it's like, you know, you
don't need to do all that. I don't know, I've, Chad has really
shaped, uh, or he's been very kind in advising me in warmups cuz I was
like a, you know, a wild pinball just bouncing all over the place with like,
I need to do a crazy specific warmup. I just need to go really hard. I need to accumulate a
certain amount of kjs. Like, there's a bunch of different
theories on it and, uh, I've settled on something pretty straightforward
and simple and I just make sure that I, that we have warmups that
you can see and train a road. Like the workouts, you can filter them. and they're awesome. Kind of like rough templates for
you to use if you don't have a trainer, you can just kind of keep
in mind that structure just warm up over the course of 15 minutes. My power raises up to somewhere around
sweet spot ish and then I do maybe a little bit of riding at threshold. Maybe one hard spin if it's like, uh,
if it's like short track or if it's a relay where I know that I need to be fast
and Ivy's coming up next or something.

But that's and I don't wanna put anybody off cuz this is
just theoretical, but I, I question the, the merit of a clearing effort or
one of those hard efforts, whether or not me too, it actually lends to and,
and this be fun thing to look into. I don't know that there's a lot
of research out there, but how, how absolutely essential that is. Because I think if you bring your aerobic
system up to speed and then go race, you're gonna have a, a, a pretty positive
outcome 99 times out of a hundred.

Whether or not that clearing effort
is gonna be the differentiator, uh, it's really got me guessing. I agree. I think it's more like my head needs to
get in the right spot, you know, maybe, and, and, and maybe the psychological
thing is the, the argument to be made. This can a lot too. Cause I just be hurt a lot
and then I don't feel better. Like more ready .
Yeah. It's like, oh god, that hurt a lot and
now I gotta go do that a hundred times. Yeah. , I don't know if that is gonna
enhance a psychological state.

I feel like what you need from your warmup too
will change as you mature as a bite gracer where a lot of that super
intense warmup stuff needs needed for me to take place in order to Yeah. Prepare for the effort
that was going to happen. And if I didn't get that, I
could never get in the mindset of going hard in the race. And as I matured as a bike
racer, I didn't need that. So you're so experienced and you know
exactly what to expect and you can get in that mindset, you know, at Yeah. That's the drop of the house already. I think that makes sense. I think younger rider with all
their nervous energy maybe benefit from running off some of it
before the actual event begins. may not be performance beneficial,
but it maybe put the, maybe puts them in a better psychological state.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. , Well you name big warmup guy. Nope. Little bit but not good. Yeah, .
Just get the blood pumping and go race .
All right. Uh, I wanna do one honorable mention
before we close off here, which was Keegan's uh, hot take submission. Sorry. I got it, Adam. But it was just E-bikes. Nothing else. Not e-bikes are good. Or e-bikes. Are E-bikes just key in just e-bikes? e-bikes are amazing. Yeah. We love hundred percent. Yeah. They're incredible. I love seeing and they're getting better and better. Yeah. I love seeing people that wouldn't
be excited about riding otherwise, feel like they have a chance to with
e-bikes or an equalizer, you know? Mm. They estimate that, uh, because,
so it's hard to separate E-bikes in Covid, but our local trail organization
estimates that trail usage is up 80%, uh, over the past two years versus
what it was in the two years prior.

And visibly, just from what I can
see, the majority of that are e-bikes. And they also showed that it was
like volunteer hours have tripled and volunteer like registration. Uh, I don't know. I think there was like a lot of fear
about e-bikes coming into it for a lot of folks and I don't know,
maybe it's different in different areas, but boy, it sure is wonderful. I love it. Mm-hmm. and they're an awesome training
tool that's underutilized. I wish I had one. It'd be a great training tool to use.

So, By companies. If you wanna just give an e-bike
or something, you know, know. No, give me the e-bike so
I can train with John and .
Yep. No, no, I agree. I think there's just pretty much
everything about 'em is wonderful and I do like the idea of gammer and I
wanna do bike tours and if she were on an e-bike and I was on a regular
bike, it's just a wonderful leveler. Makes the experience a shared one
rather than She's with her group and I'm with my group, but I don't want one. I have no interest in it. I like, I like earning my downs. It doesn't mean all the benefits aren't
there, all the upsides aren't there. The training effect of being able to
just, uh, actually session things in a fresh state, I think that's wonderful. But again, I like to earn my downs. I'm gonna cut this out. So when he asks to buy, uh,
e-bike on train rides, , I'm gonna be like, I didn't, I didn't ask.

I said, Between the one, between
the one 50 and the one 60 E, which do you think, And you said
one 60 E I went with the one 50. Cause that's, I'm just saying ever Oh, cool. So fried food, it's pointing out
a history of, of like things, you know, where Chad, like Nate will, can assure you if it,
if an E-bike winds up in my garage, it's because it's AMTs. Nate keeps your seats man down. .
I can predict the future if you like. Listen to this podcast. Uh, ,
At least with chat. Yeah. All right. But not with my race outcomes.

Myself. I'm horrible. No. Okay. Last one. Who is the fastest swimmer? Nate. John. Chad or Keegan? Nate. Okay. I'm out of this hot take. No, no. Just lemme take this one. Okay. It's Nate. It's Nate. We just have to eliminate
him from the equation. We, we make it John, Chad, and Keegan. Then it gets interesting. Otherwise, Nate's got too much history. He's, Hold on because swimmer, So if you're swimming
like hundreds, doing 400, what's your pace? So I can hold 10, one hundreds,
Like when I'm fast on one 15. Holy. That's like my last, He's when
I was training at triathlon, like when I was good, he's got youngsters experience. I'm bad in the like open water. I swim in like zigzags and stuff.

And if you look at my like
gar stuff, it goes crazy . But in the pool, uh, it's good. Especially right now, I've been
lifting weights for a year, so I was like, Ooh, I wonder what it
would be like if I got in the pool and you in the open water. If you work on siding, then you're
gonna be just as fast in the open. I don't know. I know. And even at the end there was some,
there's like, um, this scissor technique I was doing with my legs where I would
open them up when I would take a breath. But I just found at the end of my
triathlon career and I, I got a little like, um, donut thing to put her on
my legs trying to correct that thing. I think it would go a lot, lot faster. Water, wings, a floaty Give me a floaty.

And I'm super fast. I'm speaking my language now. I, that's what I'm all about. I, I, I'm like, uh, right now if I was
to go swim ten one hundreds, I bet I would do it at like one 40 in a pool. , um, open water probably around
May a little bit slower, maybe even with a wetsuit. So I'm, I'm like, I'm a little explains your triathlon splits. I had a few races on small races
where I, I'm just saying, you know what you need to work on.

I could follow, I could follow
somebody and I would come out with like the first group, but then if
I get by myself, it was really bad. If none of you ever do this
where you follow somebody and they go off course, Yes. And you're just like, so off course and
you're like, Oh gosh, I trusted you, you betrayed me. Imagine, imagine sucking as like,
like, Oh, I don't wanna say that. Imagine not being as fast as you and
being back with like the crazy scrum. Cause everybody's going, everybody's
going in crazy directions. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's like, it's not just the pack, it's
everyone is going in crazy directions. It takes a lot of training to, So, I mean, it's hard. You know what, I've gotten to a
point with this, so I, and you know, I'm, I'm not publishing videos for
everybody to judge, so I know this.

So go ahead and judge me, uh, you
know, silently without visuals. The one thing that I do have
going for me is very, I feel like dialed in proprioception
and, and being a technician. Like those are like my two like
things that I try to apply to everything that I do, and that's how
I can learn things quickly usually. And I'm finally feeling like my technique.

So I'm finally feeling
like strength is a limiter. At first when I started swimming,
I was just like, Well, drowning is my limiter and I can't, like,
you know, that's the problem. And then at a certain point
I was like, Well, no matter how hard I try, just go slow. And now I'm to the point where if I
try hard, I can drop my times down way slower than my, or way lower
than my, uh, sustainable pace. And it's strength is
like the actual limiter. So I'm not saying I have technique
down, but I'm saying like I'm to that point, at least in my progression, where
it's like I need to build strength to be able to sustain the right technique
and sustain that sort of pace. Like my stroke rate's so slow, um,
compared to what you'd see from like fast swimmers, that sort of stuff. And. That's just been a product of me trying
to figure out what the heck I'm doing in the water and taking my time with it. But now it's finally like, Whoa, I don't
have the strength to pull this off.

It's, it's cool. It's really exciting. And there's like, depending on your
school of thought, there are some people who are like super high stroke rate
and some people like lower, It's both are valid and you can be really fast
either way, but it's probably both. Dude, you're gonna get benefits from
strength training and you know, even the highest, other people still get technique. But I hear what you're saying. There's, people find this where you kind
of, they level up at different rates where it's like suddenly like technique boom,
it goes up and then it's like, ooh, now to sustain this technique, I need more
strength or I need more something else. And then that levels up and then you're
like, Ooh, my techniques I can improve. I need to focus on that. So that's just really exciting
cause I haven't had that before. It's all been just like, you know,
panicking in the water basically. But yeah, that's where if you're, if you
can't make the other side, no matter how strong you are, it's not Yeah, who cares.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. The one. So between you three, it's gonna be, I think I, I don't know. Can you swim very well? No, I mean, you can
swim, but you, She's not even in swim. No, I, I wasn't part of it
either, which I'm so glad that I was omitted from this question. Uh, I would be like,
water, wings, frog kicking. Uh, not a swimmer. .
Chad, you're a pretty good
swimmer though, aren't you? Mm-hmm. , when I, when I train it,
I, uh, improved quickly. I am a good student. Someone shows me something or explains
something, I pick up on it pretty quickly. I think kind of what Jonathan, uh,
described, he's technically adept. He's got a high level of proprioception,
so things register more quickly. I do think that can work against
you, and I think what Jonathan described is it working against him.

He's overthinking it. He's not feeling it. It's kinda like, Nate, when you get really
analytical with mountain bike descending or something, you're not feeling it. You're thinking about it heavily
and it doesn't work in your favor. Um, but I think I struck a
pretty good balance there. I, I could turn it off and work
on balance drills for long enough to make my brain relax, for lack
of a better description, and then actually start to swim more smoothly. Mm-hmm. . Yeah, So I, I progressed, well
when I, when I drained in the. And I'm just gonna say we both destroy
Keegan because he makes fun of me for being a bad swimmer, literally every day. So, uh, sends me a meme about
something drowning every single day and laughs So .

Oh, does he
have a his time's coming or try? No, he, he was a swimmer
when he was a kid. He did that. His mom was a D one swimmer. She was like one of the best
in the country, uh, in college. So she was really good. Wow. Um, and then he was a
swimmer when he was a kid. Yeah. He would beat us up real good. Oh yeah. He wants to do an Ironman that's
like a big thing on his list. Like someday he wants to do it.

He does, like Ben Hoffman joins him
for training rides and stuff down in Tucson too, so he's like, You know,
talking about it all the time with him. So we, we have this informal thing
that we're both gonna do in Ironman together for his first Ironman, uh,
when his like bike career is done. And I am going to work so hard to
just like Nate maybe a sabbatical for a while just so I can be crazy fast
cuz I want to beat him so badly at something and I'm just hoping that
he's a terrible runner, . And right now his run sucks compared to my run. And I bet if he trains for two weeks,
it'll be way faster than I could ever be. Yep. But mm-hmm. . All right. But anyways. Yeah. Yeah. Great. I'm faster than Keegan. I'm gonna say that right now. That feels good to say
I'm faster than Kegan. It's out there. Mm-hmm. .
Uh, well thanks guys. This was great. Thanks everyone for joining us.

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